Northwest Indiana Discussion

Here is an ed/op piece directly from the official Catholic website. Notice the part I highlighted.
"It is the duty of citizens to contribute along with the civil authorities to the good of society in a spirit of truth, justice, solidarity, and freedom. The love and service of one's country follow from the duty of gratitude and belong to the order of charity. Submission to legitimate authorities and service of the common good require citizens to fulfill their roles in the life of the political community (2239)."

Please note that the emphasis here is in the original. As you can see, corrosive partisanship is not on the list of duties. As Catholics, we are held to a higher standard, and we need to meet it. Given how polluted the public square is these days, we have no choice.

Finally, if Scripture and Tradition are leaving you particularly unmoved today, let me offer pragmatism: Shrill, bitter, and paranoid is no way to go through life, son. Nor are they a blueprint for a reversal of electoral fortune. Obama did not campaign on a mantra of bitter, vindictive gloom, and there is a simple reason for it: Nobody wants to be in the same room with a guy who spews this kind of talk, let alone vote for him.

Obama is our next president, like it or not. Our marching orders are clear: Pray for him and our country, work with him where possible to achieve the common good, and fight like a Maccabee when he oversteps his bounds -- all the while remembering that November 2010 and 2012 will be here quicker than we think.
The part in italics sounds like it was written for Tiger1. I also find it curious that she brings up the number 666, which is a sign of evil in Pagan worship. Superstition about supposed "omens" is the province of uneducated simpletons, not people who follow the teachings of the church.

That means OPINION, skraps. NOT Catholic Doctrine.



What flippin' Tiger are you talking about..?
If anyone is spewing hatred and bitter gloom it's you and your ilk, skraps.
I think Tiger is way too nice to you freaks.



LMAO What a fool. The number 666 is not a sign of evil in "Pagan worship" you uneducated simpleton.
It is the mark of the Beast as written in the Book of Revelation.

The Number of the Beast is described in the Book of Revelation 13:18. The original Greek reads:

Ὧδε ἡ σοφία ἐστίν· ὁ ἔχων νοῦν ψηφισάτω τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ θηρίου· ἀριθμὸς γὰρ ἀνθρώπου ἐστί· καὶ ὁ ἀριθμὸς αὐτοῦ χξϛʹ.

The King James translates:

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Uneducated simpleton indeed.

The entire text for deelight's lame attempt can be found at:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/LiberalFA ... bleforbids

Welcome! You have found my encyclopedia of liberal arguments on politics and religion. My goal is to build a one-stop reference source that uses all the latest studies, statistics and arguments.

Poor deelight tries to use the Bible to make a case for killing babies. deelight doesn't even believe in God or having babies yet attempts to use the Word of God as a blunt weapon to claim Pro-Lifers as hypocritical or not having a full understanding of the Bible.

God knows the preborn child. "You knit me in my mother’s womb . . . nor was my frame unknown to you when I was made in secret" (Psalm 139:13,15). God also helps and calls the preborn child. "You have been my guide since I was first formed . . . from my mother’s womb you are my God" (Psalm 22:10-11). "God… from my mother’s womb had set me apart and called me through his grace" (St. Paul to the Galatians 1:15).

http://www.priestsforlife.org/brochures/thebible.html

Sparks and Deelight, what part of "Thou shalt not kill", don't you understand?
As for the "catholic" qoute, that is NOT the official opinion or instruction of the Catholic Church. That is from a liberal segment that should have been booted out of the church a long time ago.
ANYONE, according to the rules of the Catholic Church, who promotes abortion, or backs a candidate who promotes abortion, is NOT allowed to receive communion.

Including Vice President Douchebag

I don't understand the parts where the Bible contradicts itself and says that it's ok to kill.


Exodus 21:22-23
Numbers 31:15-17
Hosea 9:14
Hosea 9:16
Hosea 13:16
2 Samuel 12:14
Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28
Genesis 38:24

Deelight, what crime have the babies committed, to receive the death penalty? Why does this group of people not be considered people under the law? There is no differance between this, and the tragedy that happened to the blacks centuries ago. They weren't considered people either.

BTW, if you want to qoute the Bible, go ahead and list all the passages where the Jews were slaughtered. The Jews had a right to defend themselves, even if it meant pre-empting.

Once again, you feel the need to lie to back up your opinion. It is not the "official" opinion of the church that people who voted for Obama cannot receive communion.Here is what the US Bishops said about the issue. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/15/us/15bishops.html?ref=us

A group of renegade bishops, who have their own liberal agenda, are NOT within the teachings of the church. They are leading people astray, for the sake of political correctness. The teachings of the church CLEARLY state that it is a MORTAL SIN to promote abortion, or promote those that promote abortion. Go ask the Pope. BTW, go pull out your Bible from the dust bin and look up commandment number 5, THOU SHALT NOT KILL.

Take it up with your god. I just provided two instances where up until they are a month old they are not counted. I mean personally I would not abort if I got pregnant, but that's me. Honestly Christians have themselves to blame for this situation by promoting abstinence when they should be promoting birth control pills, safe sex, and some of the other alternates to abortion.

What part of this don't you understand?
BALTIMORE, Nov. 14 — The nation’s Roman Catholic bishops approved principles Wednesday intended to guide Catholics in choosing whom to vote for but leaving the door open for them to back candidates who support abortion rights.

Nearly all the bishops approved the document, “Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship.” That broad consensus might help the church avoid the fissures that occurred in 2004, church experts said, when some conservative Catholic groups issued voter guidelines that identified abortion as “non-negotiable” and a group of bishops touched off a debate about whether Catholic candidates who back abortion rights should be denied Communion.
This is the Catholic church's official statement on voting. If you have any links that can prove me wrong, feel free to post them. I am opposed to abortions. However, I don't believe in passing laws so that women and doctors can be criminally prosecuted because they feel differently. Deelight made a very good point when she brought up contraception as a way to combat the problem.

Indeed.

Archbishop of Washington Chides Pelosi; Denver Archbishop Warns Biden to Skip Communion
By Bill Sammon

FOXNews.com
Tuesday, August 26, 2008
By Bill Sammon

Irked by pro-choice Democrats who tout their Catholicism, the archbishop of Washington is chiding House Speaker Nancy Pelosi for misstating church history and the archbishop of Denver is warning vice presidential hopeful Joe Biden not to take Communion.

The unusual public rebukes come as both Pelosi and Biden are talking up their faith in a bid for swing voters as Democrats stage their national convention in Denver. In an interview Sunday, Pelosi claimed to be an expert on the church’s abortion stance.

“As an ardent, practicing Catholic, this is an issue that I have studied for a long time,” Pelosi told NBC’s Tom Brokaw, who had asked her when life begins. "And what I know is, over the centuries, the doctors of the church have not been able to make that definition. And St. Augustine said at three months. We don’t know.”

When Brokaw pointed out that the Catholic church “feels very strongly” that life begins at conception, Pelosi said: “I understand. And this is like maybe 50 years or something like that. So again, over the history of the church, this is an issue of controversy.”

In an interview with FOX News on Tuesday, Archbishop Donald Wuerl said people need to reflect more before they start talking about church doctrine. He also issued a statement calling Pelosi’s explanation of the church’s abortion stance “incorrect."

“The current teaching of the Catholic Church on human life and abortion is the same teaching as it was 2,000 years ago,” Wuerl noted. “From the beginning, the Catholic Church has respected the dignity of all human life from the moment of conception to natural death.”

Wuerl cited a passage from the church’s catechism that condemns abortion as “gravely contrary to moral law.”

“Since the first century the church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion,” the catechism states. “This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable.”

In an afternoon response, Pelosi spokesman Brendan Daly said that as mother of five, the speaker appreciates the "sanctity of family."

"While Catholic teaching is clear that life begins at conception, many Catholics do not ascribe to that view. The speaker agrees with the Church that we should reduce the number of abortions. She believes that can be done by making family planning more available, as well as by increasing the number of comprehensive age-appropriate sex education and caring adoption programs. The speaker has a long, proud record of working with the Catholic Church on many issues, including alleviating poverty and promoting social justice and peace," said spokesman Brendan Daly.

Biden too has disagreed with the catechism, as evidenced by a 2006 interview he gave to C-SPAN, which asked him about abortion.

“That debate in our church has not morphed, but changed over a thousand years,” Biden said. “It always is viewed by the church as something that is wrong, but there’s been gradations of whether it was wrong. You know, from venial or mortal sin, as we Catholics say, and versions of it.”

But Biden added that since Pope Pius IX's reign (1846-1878), “it’s been pretty clear that’s been automatic -- moment of conception.”

Over the weekend, Biden’s pro-choice views raised the ire of Denver Archbishop Charles Chaput.

"I presume that his integrity will lead him to refrain from presenting himself for communion, if he supports a false 'right' to abortion,” Chaput told The Associated Press.

As for Pelosi, Chaput called her “a gifted public servant of strong convictions and many professional skills. Regrettably, knowledge of Catholic history and teaching does not seem to be one of them.”

Chaput added that abortion “is always gravely evil, and so are the evasions employed to justify it.”

During that 2004 presidential campaign, Chaput and a dozen other bishops called on Democratic nominee John Kerry to refrain from taking Communion. The church has also objected to former GOP presidential hopeful Rudy Giuliani taking Communion.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/26 ... communion/